Fun fact.

As the game has become safer the rate of growth has declined.

...
EVE was growing at its fastest rate back when ganking was much much easier.

Doesn't really matter. Ganking does not negatively impact sub numbers.

I'd say it's up to you to prove ganking does have an impact given that subs were rising at their fastest rate while ganking was much easier.

Yes it makes it harder by making it near impossible.

Tell me, what other activity in highsec has the same level of punishments as ganking?

So we are going to ignore the fact that CCP also calls it player made content?

Players are what make EVE interesting. If you log in to be entertained by missions or mining...damn...not sure what to say to that.

The point is that it's not interesting and he is right.

What kind of argument is "sandbox?" anyway? the "people do what they like" thing is complete hogwash, because it's a catchall for every single one out there, completely dismissing the initial influence that pushes into certain directions. Arguments using "individuality" more often than not lack any depth, meaning and consideration.

People don't just do what they like, they learn what they like and then stick with it or try something else. Many just stick with the initial activity that gave them a reward. This is a situation caused by ccp themselves, who pushes people into restricting pve and mining, which does not even offer anything interesting that makes the game and worse pushes people into isolation because it encourages isolated solo-play which ccp admitted is not so great from a retention perspective.

the sad part is that it's not afk mining (mining with three accounts in covetors and an orca is fun though, always busy!) they like, it's that they like the easy rewards combined with watching netflix/etc. That's simply not how a game should be played, or will you argue that watching TV is part of the sandbox experience? ^_^

There is one thing not mentioned anywhere in this over-bloated thread.

Nowhere do I see anyone ask simply,
"What can I do to make this game better?"

Cause a gambling site owner that financed a major war, has any influence on the common EvE player just flying around space doing some pew. /sarcasm

That post of yours stink of jealousy.

Then he should probably put some effort into not being the 'common EvE player flying around space doing some pew'. It's a sandbox. In EvE there is no 'grind to lvl100, roll some legends and roflstomp some puppies, while the whole server is in awe of your e-peen'.

It's like how people want to be rich and famous in real life, but doesn't really want to put in any effort and then they blame the 'system' cause they cannot achieve their goal.

But again, it's so much easier just to ask for nerfs and stuff instead of putting in some effort.

Adapting would require that you change the way you play, not playing at all is running away.

Quitting is not adapting, it's quitting.

Yet it does, you missed out the concept of revenge.

"Wow someone just blew up everything I've worked for over the past two weeks! Gonna hunt that mofo down and kill his ass!" *sub*

Worked for me, inherited 2 of his corpses from my first character; took me a year, revenge is a dish best served cold.

In short, when ganking was easier the game grew the fastest. Coincidence? Maybe, but I'm inclined to think not.

You forgot the training queue of 24 hours, the unlimited training gueue as well.

The removal of learning skills was a good thing. Now instead of training a horribly boring set of skills, people can move one. SP trading has been in the game and was known as character trading. And seriously, players online stopped growing in 2011 because at some point in the future T3 destroyers were going to be in the game?

The game, in terms of characters online, stopped growing around 2011. It wasn't until mid 2013 that the trend became negative. Most of your list post dates this change in trend.

I think that's a little bit the reverse of the normal argument.

It normally goes something like this:

Post A: Ganking is killing Eve (and all the various versions of that theme)
Post B: Eve was growing when ganking was easier/more common.etc.

Post B is rarely used as justification for why numbers are now falling. It's mostly used as a counter to carebear whiners who claim ganking is the reason for the decline, ignoring all other changes.

Lets try a thought experiment.

Suppose CCP, in their infinite wisdom (now stop laughing and go with it) decide to just simply ban ganking. They make CONCORD response times 1 second in every system, they buff the freighter EHP 100x, and also will permaban anyone still trying to or even succeeding at ganking. It is now gone for good.

Gankers lose content right? What do you think they are going to do? Start mining? Run missions? Probably not. Some might go back to HS after biomassing gank alts (after extracting any surplus SP), but some of them will likely leave.

I imagine that some gankers in HS are alts, some are mains. What is the break, no freaking idea. But undoubtedly some would leave with an additional round of nerfing. As has happened with previous rounds of nerfing.

Go back and look at the EvE Offline data. Look at when the war between Goons/the Imperium vs. IWI started. Logins started trending up. When Goons bailed and headed south...oh look the trend changed. It is now heading back up, but most likely that is seasonality.

Bottom line: IMO PvP is what drives logins. Having been in NS/LS for almost 8 years I can tell you that when we have a war, or PvP on a regular basis people log in. When we don't they don't.

So don't be so glib dismissing the removal of ganking. I don't think you completely understand the situation...you are too narrow minded.